Jozie Lee,

I read you and Mike's conversation.. I had left off after Mike's rebuttal and was all set to chime in..but I was pulled away by other commitments.

Then low and behold I sit down to write my thoughts.. and dag nabbit if you haven't taken my thoughts and packaged them very nicely and I might add in less space than I usually take up :D.

So yes I agree with Jozie points.

And furthermore...We can't as a nation be looking for the opening to rush in now and blame Obama for all that Bush left behind.

The LAT headline story yesterday was "Jobless spiral may define a nation" article written by Mike Dorning, reporting from Washington DC.

Article also said Unemployment jumped from 7.6% in January to 8.1% in February. there have been 4.4ml jobs lost since recession began end of 2007. Sorry I actually read the article in the paper so I don't have a link for you.

And Tom Petruno wrote:
"Those who blame the president for the stock market's dive are taking a simplistic view of a complex reality".

Also on another equally important note...the LAT also featured this story. “Obama to reverse stem cell policy. Lifting bush’s limit on research will reopen a door for science.” By Karen Kaplan. Yeah...the blood cord I have stored from my kids could help them or me, stay healthy longer. Stem cell research is “Sound Science”. If we can spend billions to explore the universe we can certainly encourage our scientists to explore how our own bodies could help to cure diseases that could save lives.

Obama is finally concentrating on moving us forward in so many ways. But unfortunately Obama inherited a historically unprecedented situation. I pray he will be successful in reviving not only America’s economy, but as we all know this problem is global.

Obama has an enormous task at hand. Let’s give him a chance people.

Ron Paul on DL Hughley Show March 7th (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiijmF_tIH0

DR ROBERT WROTE: "I have sent numerous letters and emails to the white house...and not 1 has come back"

If you didn't get a bounced email a server received it and perhaps it takes time for the staff to respond. They say the vetting process to work at the Whitehouse is grueling thus many jobs are still vacant.

When I donated a tiny contribution to the BarackObama.com I received an email response within minutes, and was put on their email list. Others here report the same.

Ideas must be processed differently.

Perhaps now that they've moved to Whitehouse.gov the emails aren't so quickly processed.

Good luck on receiving a response. Let us know when it happens. I love living vicariously through other people's email.

-mike:

I cheated. I started my weekend yesterday by spending the afternoon in the park, next to a lake, under a startlingly blue sky surrounded by a bunch of squealing kids.

We go to the park at least once a month and I've never seen it so busy. Why so many people? Layoffs, Friday furloughs and avoiding the malls. How heartwarming to see parents enjoying their children. Who can resist a child's cry of delight. Such a healing balm to the spirit and soul. Hope you have a great weekend, too.

Did you watch "Hardball" yesterday? Chris Mathews and his guests answered most of your questions.

PRESIDENT'S APPROVAL RATING.
The president says he will be judged by results.

Chris asked his panel when do we start judging Obama#44 and stop blaming Bush#43. The answer: we're still blaming Ronald Reagan for tax cuts and deregulation, and we're hailing Roosevelt for turning the economy around. Decisions made by our leaders can reverberate through generations. They never stop being blamed or praised.

BUSH/4 YEAR PASS.
A few senators are looking into mistakes made by Bush#43 and Dick Cheney. President Obama says he doesn't want to look back but "no one is above the law." It's been 7 weeks :o) and budget scanners have already found no bid contracts that most likely went to Haliburton, purchase of outdated military equipment that will never be used and billions of dollars that disappeared through wormholes and has yet to be accounted for. And they've just touched the tip of the iceberg (Bush#43 budget). What about the destroyed memos? Lordy, lordy. I don't want to live through another Kent Starr insurrection. But if records show Bush#43 willfully brought down the country he'll be blamed for decades to come. When does one stop being blamed? When you've managed with fairness and equanimity.

SMALL BUSINESS.
One last point on small business. Chris and his guests said the Dow is a lag indicator. The economy has already begun to heal, but it's so tiny we won't feel it for a while. The stimulus package is at work saving jobs - police, nurses, teachers, who would have otherwise been laid off. They said investment in energy and transportation will create jobs for small businesses.

THE INDOMITABLE AMERICAN SPIRIT.
Three cheers for Eric Spillman who interviewed a gas station owner and an out of work vet. The gas station owner needs 6 new employees. So, someone is hiring. When asked why open a new business in this economy, he said this is how the stock market works - it goes up, it comes down. You have to keep living and riding the storm.

Eric invited feedback from folks with jobs or ideas for Dean, the vet. He received a lot of great suggestions of help. Hopefully the information will not only get Dean hired but help other people in similar circumstances.

The indomitable American spirit is alive and well.

Have a great weekend. Thanks for the stimulating debate.

If you think the war in Afghanistan is over, think again after seeing this short video..

http://www.vbs.tv/full_screen.php?s=DGFE2305DC&sc=1363196

Robert - thanks

Jozielee - I'll try to untwist my knickers for ya...

First - thank you for your replies. You always put a lot of thought into your responses and thank you for breaking your points down into simple examples that get your point across.

You have brought up a lot issues and some interesting points... no need to add to some but, know that I would also like to know the answers to your rhetorical questions. My short answer with regards to Wall Street, is that it will continue to drop until a detailed plan is laid out giving investors, both big and small, a reason to feel confident. As of now, there is none. Sure, it is one thing to buy low, but it seems every week we are at a new low. We need it to stop declining before we can work on rebounding.

I just want to address a couple of quick points, so that we can both end this topic and then enjoy our weekends. We'll have plenty of other topics to contend with, i'm sure...

Ok -

I think one thing we will agree on, is that we both feel Obama seemingly strives to seek a consensus before making a decision, which is a good trait to have. Fair assesment?

So, if that is true, then it is not fair to judge him on anything that has not yet been outlined by his administration yet i.e. health care for one. Can't critique until we know what it is and the costs behind the plan.

But, one recurring theme that you keep repeating is that well, he's only been in office such and such amount of time. Ok, I've always felt he should be given adequate time before something is fairly assesed as working or not.

BUT,....

When will things go from being Bush's fault to Obama's responsibilty?

Sure, he has high approval ratings now. I even wrote to PLM, that I didn't think it was fair for the media to emphasize how high the ratings are, because afterall it is politics and when the attacks start coming from a decision that he will have to make, his ratings can only go down. You can't please all the people all the time.

I do hope that he will not be given a pass after 4 years and still be able to use the Bush years as an excuse. Otherwise, it seems he's in the perfect position. If he succeeds - he's as great as some have made him out to be and if he fails, then it was because Bush screwed things up so bad prior. At a certain point, Obama needs to start being responsible for items in the news, financial worries, and other concerns we face. I'd just like to know when will that happen?

Finally, you ended your reply with:

"We have healthy brains, imagination and a pioneer spirit. That’s what America was built on, and that’s how we’ll get ourselves out of this mess."

Very well said, my friend!

Especially, since I feel that when inspired, Americans can and will achieve anything.

-m

Regardless of what the President actually says during anyone of his speeches, it's just such a pleasure to hear an American President that is articulate and intelligent! What a change!

As for his stimulus...not too sure about it. If he really wants to help the economy, he should forgive student loans! Many if not all graduates of college, post-doc work etc, are comming out with debt in the 100's of thousands!

As for me, I became a Chiropractor and I have 150K in debt. More that 1/3 of of monthly income goes to paying that off...Just think of how much money that would allow people to put back into the retail market!!!

As for the preseident's statement of making this the most accessible goverment ever....not so...I have sent numerous letters and emails to the white house...and not 1 has come back! I guess it's only open if you have a major company that needs a few billion dollars!

Jozie said:

"Gupta's wife is having a new baby. He doesn't need the aggravation."

That wasn't in the story, so I could understand that. Plus if he stays where he's at, he would make the same or even more money than he would as SG without the hassle.

Re: Sanjay Gupta:

Gupta's wife is having a new baby. He doesn't need the aggravation.

-mike:

No wonder you have your knickers in a twist. That Democrat.com’s list would unsettle anyone – a nightmare of agencies and programs, not to mention billions of dollars attached to each bullet point. UGH!

Remember, Pres. Obama has been in office for 6 weeks.

True, he came to the White House with an ambitious agenda. He's moved swiftly to end the war in Iraq, and to close Gitmo. He's accomplished this by listening to very smart people, a pattern with our president.

Did you watch Robert Gates' interview on "Meet the Press" last Sunday? If not, here's the transcript. They talked about Iraq, our commitment in Afghanistan and Mexico. Gates says Pres. Obama is analytical. He wants to hear everyone's input before he moves. I can trust a person who listens to others then proceeds.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29453052/

In his first address to Congress, Pres. Obama outlined his next three commitments:
* Health care
* Energy
* Education

HEALTH CARE:
Today he met with health care stakeholders - members of Congress (even Ted Kennedy came to lend his support), health care providers, doctors, everyone who has ideas about universal health care. The president wants to hear ideas from everyone in that room.

No decisions have been made, except it will not be a European model, but an American model to fit our needs. Today was their first meeting. The final program may or may not include Medicare, Medical and Social Security. No dollar amount has been identified. I mentioned this topic because it came up in one of the links you posted.

STOCK MARKET:
You posted a link to an article about the president suggesting people buy stocks while they’re affordable. LOL. Suze Orman and Ali Velshi have been suggesting it for weeks. They caution only buy what you can afford to lose. So I don’t know why the president’s comment turned into an entire article. Slow news day?

You said the president doesn’t understand the “fundamentals of the economy.” He probably has a pretty good grasp on economics, and what he doesn’t know is a phone call away. This week Gordon Brown, UK PM, visited the president. Brown is an economics wiz. Surely they talked about America’s economy. Remember, Pres. Obama has been in office for 6 weeks. Everyone’s entitled to a learning curve.

You said the market drops every time the president utters a word, yet his approval rating continues to climb. So, I would venture to guess it’s not his words, it’s The Haves who are afraid of spending for fear they’ll run short of cash. Who can blame them?

SMALL BUSINESS:
You said small businesses are the backbone of America. True. I’ve been watching store after store in my local malls fold. Even major grocery stores are closing low producing locations. Ironically some businesses are doing quite well. Target, Costco, Nordstrom’s are opening new locations. Fresh & Easy, a supermarket chain, is continually opening new markets. Today Allie McKay featured two entrepreneurs starting their own small businesses. Perhaps we’re experiencing a wave of change toward a new business model?

The good news? We have healthy brains, imagination and a pioneer spirit. That’s what America was built on, and that’s how we’ll get ourselves out of this mess.

Yes, we can!

Gupta steps aside

"But one source close to him said he was very disheartened by Daschle's fate and fearful he was not going to get a prominent role in the health reform process. Gupta has built a lucrative media empire that includes appearances on CBS as well as CNN and book deals. He had expressed concern to friends about the financial impact on his wife and children."

Sounds like he may have had a few skeletions in his closet that he was worried may come to light.

As for the story about the VA hiding letters. That is just wrong on so many levels.

Again, this goes back to Bush's watch. He starts a war, and does nothing for the men who have to fight it. Bush's administration has shown a total disrespect for veterans from the start.

Gupta Steps Aside
Updated 7: 24 p.m.
By Michael D. Shear and Howard Kurtz
Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent, has told network officials will not leave his television career to become the U.S. Surgeon General, according to sources familiar with his decision.

Gupta, who had been described as the leading candidate for the public health post, withdrew his name even as President Obama hosted a health care summit at the White House today that Gupta did not attend.

The decision means that the often low-profile job will not get a mass-media jolt from appointing the well-known television celebrity. Gupta, a neurosurgeon who continues to practice medicine, has become ubiquitous on CNN, where he hosts a half-hour show called "House Call "and appears on numerous other programs.

Sources confirmed weeks ago that Obama had offered the position to Gupta and that the neurosurgeon intended to leave his network job for the government post. But no further moves were evident, especially after Obama's first choice for secretary of health and human services, former senator Tom Daschle, was derailed by tax problems.

Gupta, who was once named one of the "sexiest men alive" by People Magazine, was never officially named to the post and continued to report on CNN. He did not issue a statement or explain his decision Thursday. Sources said the medical journalist told CNN executives that he wanted to devote more time to his medical practice and to his duties at the network.

But one source close to him said he was very disheartened by Daschle's fate and fearful he was not going to get a prominent role in the health reform process. Gupta has built a lucrative media empire that includes appearances on CBS as well as CNN and book deals. He had expressed concern to friends about the financial impact on his wife and children.

The choice of Gupta as Surgeon General -- the head of the commissioned core of the U.S. Public Health Service -- was controversial from the start, as critics questioned his qualifications and experience.

Obama Admin unable to handle16,000 Veteran Medical Claims

Lets not forget that Obama said, "I Will Not Let You Down" to Veterans...

FROM: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/03/military_veteransaffairs_unopenedmail_030309w/

Unopened claims letters hidden at VA offices

By Rick Maze - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Mar 4, 2009 16:56:42 EST

A new report about Veterans Affairs Department employees squirreling away tens of thousands of unopened letters related to benefits claims is sparking fresh concerns that veterans and their survivors are being cheated out of money.

VA officials acknowledge further credibility problems based on a new report of a previously undisclosed 2007 incident in which workers at a Detroit regional office turned in 16,000 pieces of unprocessed mail and 717 documents turned up in New York in December during amnesty periods in which workers were promised no one would be penalized.

“Veterans have lost trust in VA,” Michael Walcoff, VA’s under secretary for benefits, said at a hearing Tuesday. “That loss of trust is understandable, and winning back that trust will not be easy.”

Unprocessed and unopened mail was just one problem in VA claims processing mentioned by Belinda Finn, VA’s assistant inspector general for auditing, in testimony before the House Veterans’ Affairs Committee.

Auditors also found that the dates recorded for receiving claims, which in many cases determine the effective date for benefits payments, are wrong in many cases because of intentional and unintentional errors, Finn said.

The worst case uncovered by auditors involved the New York regional office, where employees testified that managers told staff to put later dates on claims to make it appear claims were being processed faster. A review found that 56 percent of claims had incorrect dates, although no evidence was found of incorrect or delayed benefits payments. Finn said workers reported that this practice had been used for years.

The new report comes as VA is trying to resolve an earlier controversy involving documents essential to the claims process that were discovered in bins awaiting shredding at several regional offices, which raised questions about how many past claims had been delayed or denied because of intentional or unintentional destruction of documentation.

‘It is impossible not to be shocked’
Kathryn Witt of Gold Star Wives of America said survivors trying to receive VA benefits have long complained about problems getting accurate information and missing claims. “When they call to check on the status of the claim, they are often told that the VA has no record of their claim and that they should resubmit their paperwork,” she said.

In one case, a woman claimed she had to submit paperwork to VA three times to prove she was married and had three children, Witt said.

And having to resubmit the same claim, she added, does nothing to reduce the backlog that already forces survivors to wait six to nine months for simple claims to be approved.

“It is impossible not to be shocked by the numbers from Detroit,” said Rep. Harry Mitchell, D-Ariz., who chairs the House Veterans’ Affairs Committee’s oversight and investigations panel. “Shredding documents or burying them in the bottom drawer is a breach of trust. Whether that breach of trust comes as a consequence of inadequate training or negligent or deliberate behavior, Congress must not and will not tolerate it.”

It is unclear, however, whether there is any short-term fix.

A permanent solution is to have a fully electronic claims process to establish a record of when documents are received and their status as they move through the process. A fully electronic system will not be in place before 2011, VA officials said.

Kerry Baker of Disabled American Veterans said a short-term answer could be to scan all documents related to claims into computer systems. Baker, DAV’s assistant national legislative director, said this could be done at one or more large-scale imaging centers that would transform paper into electronic records.

“A large section of the veterans community and representatives of the community have long felt that the Veterans Benefits Administration operates in such a way that stalls the claims process until frustrated claimants either give up or die,” Baker said.

He said that although he doesn’t believe that is true, something must be done.

“Denying earned benefits by illegally destroying records should serve as the proverbial wake-up call that signals the urgency of this overdue transformation,” he said.

Geneva Moore, a senior veterans service representative from Winston-Salem, N.C., who testified on behalf of the American Federation of Government Employees, a union that counts about 160,000 VA workers among its members, said backdating claims and document shredding are signs of a claims system under stress.

“Clearly, if the disability claims process were already paperless, many of the problems being considered at this hearing today would no longer exist,” she said.

MORE THAN 25 MILLION AMERICANS SEEKING FOOD AID

http://www.reuters.com/resources/flash/include_video.swf?edition=US&videoId=99844

March 5, 2009 - Demand for food AID is so high that people are lining up at a pantry in one of America's wealthiest counties, Many of the more than 25 million Americans seeking food assistance are employed, but their paychecks aren't big enough to put food on the family table

Jon Stewart's March 3, 2009: Mess O'Potamia - The Iraq War Is Over

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=220241&title=mess-opotamia-the-iraq-war-is

Mike,

Your statement, "Bottomline: people either believe Government is the solution to the problem, or part of the problem. I've already stated several times that I feel governement is part of the problem. With every thing they have botched so far, why are we entrusting them to secure for our financial future, pay for all our health care needs, and lend us money to pay for problems some created on their own?" was well said and I agree completely.

Jozielee -

ooops here is the site re: stats for small business;

http://www.usa.gov/Business/Business_Data.shtml

you can review any category you would like, but this is where many stats are used when citing figures.

-m

Jozie - Are we hearing the same thing here? lol. Our ears must be picking up different meanings from the speech.

Some of the statements you posted that I disagree with include:

First and foremost that Obama is "against big government?" That couldn't be further from the truth. He is proposing more layers of goverernment, especially with all these layers of regulation that he wants.

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20090226/NEWS/902260940/1350?Title=Understanding-Obama-s-budget

With many of these agencies to be the recipients of monies proposed from the budget, I guarantee you that translates into more layers of government, regardless of him stating he is opposed to big-government.

By the way, Bush also increased the size of government, something I was greatly opposed to as well.

Secondly, you asked "do I think he likes getting up every day seeing the market flail?"

Of course not! Especially when his own words cause the drop. See any speech of his and any recent market drop.

However, the bigger problem is that just the other day, Obama mentioned that he doesn't even pay attention to the day-to-day fluctuations in the market. Although, he suggested now was a good time to buy, he discussed "Profit -to - earnings ratios."

That is an incorrect term. It is "Price-to-earnings." No big deal if he just mis-spoke, (Bush did that all the time) BUT, it is a big deal if Obama does not understand the fundamentals of the economy and the effect his proposals have on it. I'm not writing that he does not understand, just that it would be a concern if he does not.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19567.html

Then you mention once we get back on our feet, government will recede.

Really? Why would they? Do you really think they would say, ok we did our job, now will back off?

I don't.

I think they would find more ways to keep their hands on OUR money. This includes all government from the Feds to local municipalities.

And finally, if you are still reading... lol

With regards to statements about small business. There are numerous stats to review and quote. I would recommend taking a look at this government site. I do not expect (and hope) you don't read the whole report, but specifically under page 21 of this 300-page report under the small business section, you will find stats.

True the majority of businesses make under 250K a year, but that is because many entrepreneurs may have a business and may not have any employees, so they run their small business and file a schedule C when reporting taxes. Some are small companies that may do about 10 to 15k a month in sales revenue (e.g. small retail store that would hardly qualify as rich.)

bottomline:

Numbers can be twisted and used in a way to benefit the one reciting the numbers. But, it is crucial that we encourage small business from the entrepreneur, to the small mom and pop, to the small corrner market that may higher 20 people or so from the neighborhood. we need this group to succeed in order for us to rebound financially. They are the back bone of America.

ok, i'm tired. I hope I addressed your issues.

I know we both want Obama and more importantly America to succeed, we just have different reasons why we think some proposals will work and others will not.

take care,

-m

PAUL WROTE: "people who have lost their financial footing . . . others . . . have been forced to take lesser paying ones (jobs) to help make ends meet . . . They are not asking for handouts"

Ditto.

-mike:

If you listened to President Obama you would know he is against big government. He says government should only intervene when citizens can't protect themselves. That's today.

Today we need a government that can access the Big Picture and use our tax dollars to pull us off the cliff.

Unfortunately, we can't recover our economy on our own. Once the country is on its feet government will recede and allow free enterprise to flourish on its own.

Do you think the president relishes getting up every morning to a flailing Dow Jones report? To plummeting house values? To a disappearing auto industry? No. He'd rather everyone be working, paying their bills, going to the movies and playing with their kids. And he's rather be playing basketball. But until that day arrives government has to protect us with a plan to get us back to the promise of America - "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage." (Herbert Hoover)

During the election President Obama was heavily quoted in a conversation he had with Joe the Plumber. He said that 95% of small businesses in America make less than $250K annually. So, his tax plan should not adversely affect the majority of small businesses.

He also said for too long those making over $250K have paid a disproportionately lower amount of taxes than 95% of taxpayer so they could create jobs.

Where are those jobs today? Why are we hearing about thousands of jobs being cut from companies who are still enjoying record-breaking profits?

So, you see, I don't agree that President Obama's tax plan will squash free enterprise or the entrepreneurial zeal to excel. Those who don't try never succeed, regardless of the political or economic climate. Those who do, create a world thus far unimaginable.

Jozie said:

"Before I go may I remind you that it was you who coined the phrase "poor cash-strapped" in this discussion. I know that's a person who lives from paycheck to paycheck, which used to be called the middle-class. As we all know, the middle-class has lost its financial footing in the last 8 year and is increasingly aligned with the poor."

Jozie, I know a number of people who have lost their financial footing. Some due in part because of the WGA strike and have yet to recover completely and now it really hard to. I know others who have lost their jobs do to a number of reasons and have been forced to take lesser paying ones to help make ends meet or are still looking. They are not asking for handouts, these are hard working people who own their homes and want to keep them. They need jobs more than anything else. And they need to have ways to keep costs down, like food and utilities. When you have a $250 DWP bill, and you look at it and see half of that is going to fees and taxes. That's too much. Local governments are the ones who are really causing a burden on the middle class. That's where Obama should step in and put a cap or something on these. And now that Tony (is there a photo op?) V has been reelected, I can see the city just biting at the bit to raise fees.

-mike:

Limited time today prevents me from adequately responding to your most recent post. And you know I've got a bunch to say. I'll be back.

Before I go may I remind you that it was you who coined the phrase "poor cash-strapped" in this discussion. I know that's a person who lives from paycheck to paycheck, which used to be called the middle-class. As we all know, the middle-class has lost its financial footing in the last 8 year and is increasingly aligned with the poor.

So, you see, I did not misunderstand your words or your meaning.

Must go. See you later.

Jozielee -

Thanks for the reply, .... BUT, I think you are taking my comment about business and the Obama proposals way out of context. No where did I comment on the poor and I certainly never would look down on them as you wrote. That was not even implied in my post.

Let's get back on track to the original question that Robert posted that I was referring to... Will Obama's policies create incentives for business to succeed? That was the question I was responding to.

Since we've, already debated pros and cons about what Obama was proposing for his economic policies before he was elected, we are now at a point that Wall Street, is reacting to the reality of what is being said. Wall Street effects everybody, not just greedy CEO's. Everyday people like you and me who have their retirements and meager investments tied up in, at the very least, mutual funds. Again, these proposed tax policies and monies proposed for spending in the budget are having a negative impact on the economy. But, at least for today, the Dow was up. So, let's hang onto this roller coaster ride.

Bottomline: people either believe Government is the solution to the problem, or part of the problem. I've already stated several times that I feel governement is part of the problem. With every thing they have botched so far, why are we entrusting them to secure for our financial future, pay for all our health care needs, and lend us money to pay for problems some created on their own?

Yes, their are many who have had unexpected mis-fortunes, but to rely on the government to solve all our problems should not be the intentions of government. Do we want a society dependant on the government for all their needs? I don't. Of course, aid and assistance to get back on our feet from time to time, is another thing.

I'm only taking the time to restate my point, since it is clear that you were introducing a topic that I was not referring to, that's all.

-m

jozielee

"They may pay more in taxes but they do not pay their fair share in taxes."

And how many of those who Obama has picked or tried to pick for his administrations haven't paid their fair share until they got caught?

There should be NO taxes on incomes.

Income tax dollars never go to the federal government but ALL income tax dollars go to the privately owned FED to pay our interest on our debt!!!!

"100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government. "
(See Grace Commission Report ) http://www.uhuh.com/taxstuff/gracecom.htm

See IRS Envelope E-179 (Rev. 6-92) Where it says your tax checks are paid to any FRB branch for payment of US Obligations.

wadada

Sorry HI is in the Pacfic Ocean////The Indian Ocean is S/E of Africa

-mike WROTE: "2% making over 250K paying lower taxes, that simply isn't true. They pay more in taxes."

They may pay more in taxes but they do not pay their fair share in taxes.

In his address last week and in campaign speeches, President Obama said people making over $250,000 do not pay enough taxes, hence his proposed tax increase for that economic group.

-mike WROTE: "I also don't see what you mean when you wrote about the 2% making over 250K paying lower taxes, that simply isn't true."

First off, I understood what you meant - poor people don't create jobs.

I also understand how the economy works - buyer, seller - need each other. While the seller may be creating jobs he needs someone to buy products and services to keep money moving.

That's why the president and economist continually talk about consumer confidence. As long as consumers don't spend money the more jobs we lose.

Sometimes those consumers are "poor cash-strapped" people trying to feed their families. So don't look down on them. They, too, keep the economy going.

Whether I'm among the "poor cash-strapped" or they constitute my friendship-base is irrelevant. We Americans are a community of people who must look out for each other because together we sink or swim. At least that's what America used to look like. Unfortunately as the rich has gotten richer they forgot about the poor.

Last night Tavis Smiley, talkshow host and author of ACCOUNTABILITY, reminded Larry King that during the presidential campaign no one addressed the plight of the poor in America. That group has been forgotten. So I must thank you for bringing them into the conversation.

About the 2% making over $250,000 annually. Actually it's 1% as the president, pundits and newspaper columnist have quoted for months. I was just giving that group grace of an extra percentage point as we've undoubtly created more Wall Street millionaires during this whole bailout.

Pinhead said:

Pau (the leper),

I didn't know you had wings or could fly. Truly impressive.

And I didn't know an as*hole could type. Very impressive.

Pau (the leper),

I didn't know you had wings or could fly. Truly impressive.

Did I forget a letter in your name??

I find the extra tax on $250,000 is damaging to incentives for achieving the upper edge of the middle class. The beginning income for increased taxes should be somewhere around $500K. The upper middle class needs to include Dentists and Doctors I would think. Should a dentist close his or her doors at $235K annual income so they don't get an extra tax hit??? Their accountants will tell them to. Removing rungs from the ladder of success is not sustainable economic policy. Public works programs can provide income, generally, for the lower middle class. I am hopeful that the Obama years will be healing to our nation he is a bright and chirismatic leader surrounded by many who were in the mix when all the complex mistakes were made. That is good just think if Paul or I were his advisor a cabinet member. With all the experience we have with these problems just think how much would get accomplished. ha ha When your new in town, as Obama is, you must surround yourself with native guides or you will not find your way. At least not in time to do much of anything.

Compare the reactions of the military for the 2 presidents..

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/03/obama-bush-vide.html

Jozielee -

i'm sorry, in my haste earlier it looks like I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again with what I meant when I wrote cash-strapped.

I was referring to businesses. In other words, I posed the question about you, or anyone you know ever been hired by a company that is hurting financially? Every one that has ever hired me did so because they had needs to fill and money to pay. Forget cash flow and cash-strapped for a moment... Usually it is successful or growing companies that hire, correct? And we've all seen the financials that companies have been reporting showing huge unprecedant losses. So, to combat this, they need to reduce costs. One quick fix is cutting labor, which many of these companies obviously have been doing. The threat of more taxes has had a negative impact on both the Dow and confidence in our economy.

The major reason for this is that the huge spending budget that is now being proposed by the Obama administration is basing revenues, not only on these yet to be paid taxes which are dwindling as revenues drop, but also these expenditures will need to be paid with yet to be printed monies.

This budget has us spending money faster than they can print it. We are borrowing from future generations, with no justification of how it might possibly be paid back. We can not spend our way out of this problem.

If you want to collect more revenue from taxes, then we need to encourage more sales. Sure, many companies had obscene profits prior, but they also paid huge taxes on these profits as well.

I also don't see what you mean when you wrote about the 2% making over 250K paying lower taxes, that simply isn't true. They pay more in taxes. The more you make, the more you pay. True, there can and are tax incentives and/or credits but, they still pay more than someone who makes less, correct?

I'm sorry, I don't know if I explained it better or made it more confusing... lol

Anyway, your other point about being cash-strapped and the report you cited is a good example from the consumer stand point, but again I was not referring to that...

-m

The forest pinhead said:

"Paul, I think your a little paranoid ..... I have one name and am proud to use it and further would use no other."

Sure, and pigs have wings and fly. And you said you were leaving as well. And yet here you are. Isn't that special. What other lies will you be posting here?

No on B.

FORREST WROTE: "Don't attack everything find creative ways to improve the plight of yourself and those that you share this place with."

I'm all for residuals. If you have an idea I hope you're posting it where people who can make a difference will take action. Like the George Jefferson's, I " want a piece of the pie."

-mike WROTE: "has a poor cash-strapped person/company ever hired you?"

Yes, by continually buying products and using services that keep the economy going. Why should the load continually be carried by the "poor cash-strapped" while the 2% making over $250,000 pay lower taxes and find loop holes that allow them to get richer and richer without giving a break to the consumer.

Eric Spillman offered a fantastic example this week in his story about the cost of milk, cheese, wheat and flour going down but the "cash-strapped" continue to pay escalating prices for cereal, bread, peanut butter and boxed mixes. When does the "cash-strapped" catch a break?

Rush Olbermann, thank you for correcting my gender bending of PLM.

PLM, I apologize for my misinterpretation of your gender.

Paul, I think your a little paranoid ..... I have one name and am proud to use it and further would use no other.
To all, The DWP is a not for profit public benefit corporation owned by the residents of the City of Los Angeles it is run by employees with little control from anyone. That is the problem, however even with excesses in top management there the DWP has been the lowest cost water and power provider in the state and has promoted in a big way the implementation of green renewable power sources including LPG power cells as well as solar. Any investment in new technologies will increase costs to amortize the capital investment. Costs for power could decrease or remain constant as renewables become more abundant. I do not live in LA at this time but have for many years I live in SM the City of my birth. I have not read the propositions but know this that the DWP is owned by the Citizens of the City of LA not some corporate power house. During the Enron created energy crisis a few years back the DWP was selling energy to the Corporate Energy Suppliers and actually made money for a public benefit. Don't attack everything find creative ways to improve the plight of yourself and those that you share this place with. The DWP like many government agencies and programs are run by folks that are protected by unions that get politicians elected (mostly from my party the Dem's) these folks know that their bosses come and go (term limits) and thus have little long term effect on their carrier. These department heads do as they please for the most part and many are absolutely corrupt. That problem is difficult to address through the elective process. Many times when a department head decides that they disagree with legislation the will issue a policy that frustrates the legislations intention through a creative interpretation of it's meaning (legislation through interpretation) finding ways to gain a check and balance system on the DWP and other Government agencies would be of more economic productivity then saying no no no change change change or spouting hate filled slurs against any organized group of patriotic citizens hoping to make this place better. Pres Obama is in my opinion giving his all to benefit this nation and the world. He may not meet the promises he made during his campaign but please realize that only after his election was he privy to the information he is now privy to as a President. Plans change once you have the facts.
Forrest (my only handle)

Robert - I hope I don't curse you by actually agreeing with you... I tend to do that for some. Just know when you are writing many heads are agreeing with you... BUT,

I hope, time permitting, you have a chance to go back to a few of the older blogs and review some of the dialogue that took place before the election. You'll see where many of us stand on the issues of capitalism/socialism/ government-intervention/conservative views and liberal viewpoints and a myriad of other topics.

I'm only writing this because although I do agree with many of the points you have brought up, unfortunately for some of us though, who have spent waaaay too much time here already, we have already discussed these topics

The short answer to your question is I do think that although many businesses may not lose their incentive to succeed, they will however seek as many loopholes as possible to keep their dwindling profits. Smaller to medium-sized businesses which are the majority of businesses in the U.S., will just seek to reduce costs in other ways. And that will mean more layoffs. If businesses do not have incentives to hire or knowingly have to pay more taxes for even less in return, well how does that help the economy?

So yes taxing the rich more, more, and more than they are already paying sounds great at a speech rally, but the reality of it is we need successful individuals and companies alike to be productive and profitable. I mean, has a poor cash-strapped person/company ever hired you? I believe more taxes will be collected if more revenues are generated. So we need to encourage business to succeed, not find more ways to squeeze money from them. They already pay the majority of taxes as it is.

Ok here's a nickle for you as I went over my two cents' worth.

-m

LINDA WROTE: "My family has paid their mortgage on time, not charged up credit cards and contributated to our 401k, which has gone down more than half since Obama was elected."

No one knows exactly how to fix the economy. It's all new. And it's all trial and error. The worse mistake we could make is to do nothing and sink.

In two years when the economy is on the mend will you be happier with President Obama? And will it matter if members of his administration worked for another president or not?

Maybe today joy can be found in appreciating bold leadership and looking ahead to renewed prosperity.

The sad truth is that our newly exaulted leader hasn't got a clue on how to fix any of this mess. He is taking the wise advice of the very people who got us into this mess to begin with. Let's just keep encouraging people to borrow more money that they will never be able to pay back. Just look at what the stock market has done since the inaguration...down down down! My family has paid their mortgage on time, not charged up credit cards and contributated to our 401k, which has gone down more than half since Obama was elected. The foxes are sure loose in the henhouse!

Hey Jared!

How are you buddy?

I'm curious ...What's your thoughts on this?

http://blogs.ktla.com/news_custom_eric/2009/02/global-warming-satellite-fails-to-reach-orbit.html

To everyone for discussion:

The President introduced an awesome guy during his speech. He sold his bank and shared the profit with his employees and former employees. My question to everyone is; would someone, under President Obama's policies be able to achieve and do the same?

I think that the President's policies take away incentives to succeed. Why try when your reward is to pay more taxes. You also run the risk of your bank being taken over by government regulators. You can't woo investors because the congress is getting rid of tax breaks for growing your business and you can't take any bonuses for your hard work and dedication. I don't think anyone will be able to build a business to the point where they could do the same as that guy from Florida.

What do you think?

GERRY WROTE: "little people by their economic policy of redistribution of wealth we are not goping to start any recovery, just dig a deeper hole."

We little people are hurting, that's for sure, but why must we be the only Americans made uncomfortable? We're in this together. Shouldn't we all pull together to make a better tomorrow?

IMHO, it's the imbalance of wealth that 's the root of the problem. The rich wanted more and more and more, while the little people continued to support the country. Something had to give.

If we can make it through the next year maybe we'll all see a light at the end of the tunnel and we'll emerge a more equitable America.

JARED HELD: "Robin Williams..."I love New York " in Arabic. ... It appears this is a Hoax"

Thought so. I couldn't imagine Robin Williams who's known for his humanity and humanitarian acts would make such outlandish remarks.

Thank you, Jared.

Constitution Revolution - Trailer and Release Date - Calling All Remaining Patriots!

Watch the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xTyuB_8ydY

Ron Paul: 'Pretty sad' that Limbaugh is GOP leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAJblzgkfs0

David Edwards and Rachel Oswald
Raw Story
March 2, 2009

http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-pretty-sad-that-limbaugh-is-gop-leader/

Demonstrating again his propensity to go out on a limb, Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) had some choice words of criticism for Rush Limbaugh, the conservative media talk show host who was the star attraction at last weekend’s Conservative Political Action Conference.

In a phone interview Monday morning with CNN’s John Roberts, Paul said of Limbaugh “He is a leader. He does say the right things now and I think a lot of people like to hear what he’s saying but I think it’s also a little bit polarizing and confrontational and I think that’s why the Democrats are bragging that Limbaugh now speaks for the Republicans so I guess the Democrats think its to their advantage if he’s leading the charge.”

Responding to a question from Roberts on what it means for the Republican Party that their “spokesperson” is a radio talk show host and not a member of the political leadership, Paul said, “I think it’s pretty said. It’s a good point to make. That means the Republicans are really starving for some type of leadership.”

A 2008 presidential contender, Paul was a dark horse candidate for the Republican nomination. His advocacy against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as his criticisms of infringements on civil liberties under the Bush administration have often put him at odds with the majority of his party but have also led to strong support from civil libertarians.

“He really doesn’t broaden the base,” said Paul of Limbaugh. “It’s still very narrow and that’s why some of us would like to see an approach that would emphasize personal liberties, civil liberties, looking at the drug war… It’s really the old Republican Party because even Limbaugh was a big supporter of Bush so he doesn’t have anything new either when it comes to bringing our troops homes, not expanding the war in Afghanistan..

In criticizing Limbaugh, Paul joins Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele, who also had some unflattering remarks to say about the popular talk show host.

“Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer,” Steele said to CNN’s D.L. Hughley on Saturday. “Rush Limbaugh, his whole thing is entertainment. Yes it’s incendiary, yes it’s ugly.”

Said Roberts of Paul, “I was fascinated that in terms of expanding the base, Ron Paul is bringing a lot of young people in the door. It’s fascinating. This 72-year-old white guy from Texas is bringing a lot of young people in.”

Paul demurred though to Roberts’ enquiries of whether he would run for president in 2012.

“I don’t think so. It’s a long way off. I can hardly imagine what [state] the country is is going to be in. Right now I just plan on promoting the cause.”

Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says, "I love New York " in Arabic. ... It appears this is a Hoax

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp

Otimistic/pessimistic - no difefrence - untill Obama gets the message that he and his party led by Pelossi are hurting the little people by their economic policy of redistribution of wealth we are not goping to start any recovery, just dig a deeper hole. As the value of my 401K dwindles to nothing I cannot think of spending a dime, nickel or penny on anything but necessities. I am sure others are in the same position. Drive all teh stocks down and only the wealthy and highly paid government people will buy stocks and make a fortune of they go up even a little.

Pinhead forrest said:

"Paul on the other hand doesn't care enough about anyone else to try and hold it back it appears. Paul on the other hand doesn't care enough about anyone else to try and hold it back it appears."

Well, for the first time you have been right about something. Because if you are talking about you,
no I don't hold back or care about you.

antoinette:

Can you provide the link from which you pulled the Robin Williams text?

I may be completely wrong, but this doesn't sound like something Robin Williams would say. He's usually so loving and all embracing of all people. I'd appreciate more information.

Thank you.

Antoinette,

Thank you for that! It was utterly delightful and amusing!

Aah!! Robin Williams...gotta love ''em!!

Maybe HE should run for a political office!!!

-------Original Message-------


GOTTA LOVE HIM....A MUST READ...PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR...READ THIS!

The Plan!
?

Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says "I love New York " in Arabic.

You gotta love Robin Williams......Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.

Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!)

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good 'ole' boys", we will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East , and the Philippines . They don't want us there. We would station our troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in.
If you don't like it in your country change it yourself and don't try to hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers.
If they don't attend classes,or they get a "D" it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of their wells filling up their storage sites would be enough.)

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. ! Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH..learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "

If you agree with the above forward it to friends...If not, and I would be amazed, DELETE it!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Traveling